Eric Derry from Zúme - Reproducing Disciples & Digital

Eric Derry from Zúme - Reproducing Disciples & Digital

The Ministry Growth Show

June 14, 2021

Episode Notes:

This week on The Ministry Growth Show we're joined by Eric Derry, a Global Dispatcher for Zúme who works with coaches and trainers all over the world for the ministry. In this episode, Eric shares his insights into Zúme as an organization and model, and we spend some time discussing digital missions and Zúme as a powerful tool in the space.

Zúme Training
Zúme Vision
Disciple Tools
Kingdom Training

Episode Transcript:

You're listening to the Ministry growth Show brought to you by Reliant Creative, the creative agency for Gospel centered ministries. Find out more at Reliant Creative dot org. Welcome to the Ministry Growth Show, a podcast dedicated to helping churches and ministries grow and make more effective impacts for the Kingdom of God in an ever changing digital world, whether you're building and growing a gospel center ministry or leading a church, if you want insight into the strategies, struggles, challenges and successes of other ministry leaders, you've come to the right place.

Welcome back to the ministry Growth show Today on the show, I'm gonna be talking with eric dairy. He is a global dispatcher and works with coaches and trainers for Zoom eric. Thanks for being on the show.

Hey, thanks for inviting me. It's great to be here with you. Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. Um can you share before we get started a little bit of your background and how you got started with Zoom.

Yeah, yeah. So I've been with a mission organization since the eighties and we're, we've always been about, you know, unreached peoples planning churches among unreached peoples, you know, help them finish the task along with the other organizations doing this.

And uh, and so we were all, you know, always excited about that. Uh, when we read about the movements, the church planning movements and David Garrison materials, then that helped us even refine it even more.

We weren't just going to go, you know, reach and reach people. We wanted to see church planning movements start among them, right? We didn't really ever know how to get that going, but uh, we, we still wanted to get there.

We felt like I was calling us to that Fast forward past the sell groups of Ralph neighbour and all that. It was in 2009 at a church planning conference down in Florida, I ran into a guy named Frank Shatner frank, uh and he would be a great guy to have on here by the way too.

But frank was gonna invited me into this world of church planting movement, people practitioners and implementer and uh I received are my first training in in the actual how twos and and the wise and everything, just all the principles over in the Philippines Back in 2009.

And it was following that, that I was invited into a group called Jonathan Project and and roundabout in the year 2013. The goal of that whole thing was uh it was we did a project and we're still in it by the way, but it's called Hill 111 meaning uh we wanted to take the Hill, you know, like Jonathan in in in uh first Samuel chapter 14 Take the Hill take that hill.

But the hill represented the unreached peoples of the world, right? And represents the lack of the gospel. It represents where the kingdom is not. And so uh we the You know the tagline and the goal and the vision of the whole thing was to see one million New uh churches lights, you know, groups get started among 1000 People groups in less than one decade.

So in 2013 is when I got started and I'm glad to tell you that that you know that has been met now. But in the two years after that we were all that same group was praying together fast and together we were all um uh you know just laid out before the Lord and we were seeking his direction and his input on what we should do even for like the the church in America, you know, the, you know, the Kingdom of God in America and north America.

Um and it wasn't just that, I mean we were obviously seeking out for all people groups, but what can we do? And it was out of those prayers and out of those conversations uh that I remember Xuemei got started and it was a, you know, a brainstorming child Curtis sergeant who imagine you've had on this podcast before, he was part of that and a lot of the principles and tools that he had already been seeing happening uh live in action in Asia and other parts of the world, you know, it was like we hadn't seen that happen yet here in America, so we were like what can, what can we do? And so Zuma was born out of that kind of a conversation, out of that kind of a heart yearning spirit thing.

So yeah, and so, um, so out of that, out of that desire to see a movement in the Americas Xuemei birth, but it's not a, it's not just american um, organ organisational models, like it's being used globally.

Yeah, well, if you, yeah, if you're in a sense, it was, it was the, the effective, you know, fruit that we were seeing overseas among many people groups happened. They actually spilled over towards, we weren't the first ones.

We were, in a sense, the last ones, you know, in America, we like on the, on the end of the stick said, hey, you know, we want to see this happen to how can how can we help spur that on. But uh, from the beginning zoom was a tool that was born with the idea to see it in multiple languages.

In fact, we we identified The 30 for top languages spoken outside of English in the United States so that we could not just, you know, reach English speakers but to reach all of these people that the Lord was bringing into uh this continent.

So that's why those 34 languages were chosen but they're the most spoken uh you know, you know in the world mostly you know, but represented in the U. S. Okay. So can you describe how like if you were described what Zuma is and how it functioned, how would you communicate that? I would, I would call Zoom a a tool, a resource, a free resource that is available to the body of christ globally.

Uh huh. To help come alongside of any ministry uh any any believer, any disciple to help provide a way to introduce and and actually help any person, any group get started and get moving on the, the foundational, very important, essential uh practices and tools of decide being a disciple that's worth reproducing and making disciples that will reproduce and so you know when jesus left this earth, he commanded us go make disciples, he, you know and it's like that's the one thing he told us to do with all the authority that he had, you know, he could have told us to do anything right and he has all authority on heaven and earth and he says go make disciples of all nations, so this tool is available and it'll come alongside and help anybody to accomplish and fulfill that because it gets them started, its introductory, it's not like the full thing, but it gets them doing the very important, you can't you can't step over these things, these these are the important, you know, foundational essential principles and tools of being a disciple and making disciples okay? So it's a it's a foundational start, foundational principles, like starter tool resource, not it's going to go in depth on everything, it'll get him Yeah, that's right, it will take it'll take them along with, you can go far with it because everybody still needs to come back, you know, like I was a football coach and you know, it doesn't matter how, you know how complicated football gets, it still comes down to the basics if you can't block, if you can't tackle, you know, if you're not in good fitness and shape, you know, forget the rest, it's like you've got to you got to go back, so if you have problems in football, you always go back to the basics.

Usually if there's an issue happening with christians, it's like what, what's not working, what's not working, go back to the basics, this stuff is all, you know the basics of being in a relationship with the king of kings, Lord of Lords, being his disciple, you know, and just going back to the foundational, you know, meanings of what it is to follow, jesus to surrender to him, to listen to him, to hear him to, you know be you know, founded and ground in his word and in prayer and in sharing who he is with the people that you love and then being able to form simple groups to multiply all this, that's in essence what what Zuma is all about and it has it's all just intertwined in there and it's available digitally.

It's free and it's in multiple languages already. 30 some. Uh so yeah, so what you can describe it as a resource or a course, is it delivered digitally or analog? How like what does it functionally look like? Yeah, so it's all of those and and that's why I really like it because it's it's actually flexible.

So you can You can come into it and just for one it's it is available on a website and you can take it as a course, a 10 week course, uh which is kinda like the full, you know, introduction of the whole thing, but you know, 10 weeks, two hours at a time.

Plus the homework in between. That's one way to get it. You can actually just take it one little piece at a time. You can go in and uh there's a course overview and from that page we call it the pieces package.

You could choose any one of about 32 different elements out of this, out of this course, and you can do it one at a time and you can do it in the order that you want to do it. Very simple. Uh you can download it onto a phone, you can do it so like you may have internet and that's great and that therefore you could access the web page or you could use the mobile app and download it to your phone or to another device and use it offline and therefore have it available in that way.

So it's uh there's uh you can download the scripts. So all of the videos, 31, videos or audios are available in scripts which you can download and you know, have that as a pdf. And you can print those out.

You can print out an entire guidebook along with those video scripts and have literally word for word, everything that's in the courts, and then you could use them at your leisure, at your own creativity.

Some people are taking this and coming up with their own courses and using, you know, using it in their own what they feel like fits the best, you know, into their situation at their church or using in their organization or in their country or village or wherever they're at for their application.

So it's very flexible. That's really cool. Can you, can you maybe share some of the impact that you guys are seeing across the main landscape maybe, um, maybe in the last five months? What things that you have seen that are really exciting? Yeah.

Uh, first of all, I would encourage any reader or any listener to your podcasts act to go to zoom a vision and then, uh, maps and on there, there's this last 100 hours map in any given time. this is refreshed, you know, instantly.

So I just opened this up just now and I'm reading that two minutes ago in the Philippines, Somebody's studying, soaks bible, uh study somebody in the Philippines is also studying this faithfulness is better than knowledge and then someone else over in Barbados, you know, four minutes ago, you know, logged in and they're studying through that same one called faithfulness is better than knowledge.

Someone in the United States in the state of indiana opened it up and that they're looking at the expect non sequential growth. That was just six minutes ago, nine minutes ago, someone in Cameroon went and they started doing prayer walking and these are just giving you just uh, you know, you can look at the last 100 hours, it's an awesome uh tool that someone could use in their church.

Hey, let's pray for unreached peoples and let's pray, let's pray for the people of the world and you can literally just sit there and let this thing refresh and and just pray for them as they come in and say, we're going to lift up this guy or this lady, you know, that's in this country and you'll see how that's happening.

You ask for the last five months, I've got a snapshot here for you. I'm opening this up right now and so this will be fresh as it uh lists Out to me. It does, it's basically looking back to January one of 2021 and it's gonna, it's gonna give me a snapshot of what's going on in the world.

Since then with this tool called Zuma uh training and uh It looks like we just hit a milestone. We just passed 200,000 visitors that have come and visited the site. Uh there have been over 5,266 training sessions that have taken place.

Uh we've seen coach requests come in over almost 200 100 and 92 coaching requests have come in. Uh I received those as that global dispatcher. Uh and I and I'm my responsibility is to go ahead and assign them to somebody.

We have like 70 coaches that are out there willing to go and that's exciting. There's over 5700 registrations that have come in. I I'm not going to open up a separate place called training and maps. And the reason I like to give you that is because you asked for the impact that it's making.

And so um this tells us how many countries are involved in Zuma and where these registrations are coming from. So I'd like to list uh list out for those who are listening to this podcast, the top 10 countries where we're seeing these registrations.

So people come in, they'll find this website, they see it if they like it, they, you know, put in their email, their name and they want to go through the course, they want to take the training. So I'm seeing that just in the past month, for instance, just the last One month we've seen registrations from 135 different countries.

That's in one month. The top countries India, we have Nepal, Pakistan, Tanzania, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Zambia, Uganda Ethiopia. And the United States is the 10th one on that one. That's just in the past month.

If I change those dates uh and go back all the way to January, guess what? The United States falls out. Uh they end up not being in the top 10 and they end up being, you know, further down, but it's just uh you know, just in one month we've seen visitors from 204 countries and territories that you know, As you know, 204 is more than the total of 195 or whatever it is.

But we include territories in these. So it's just, it's interesting to go back and look at these stats, see these. But this is just for us to Stewart to make sure that, you know, we are uh starting these resources that God has given us and trying to help get these out to the body of Christ uh worldwide.

Um we would love to see every, you know, people group, every that replaced, you know, just covered and saturated represented. That's really cool. And you mentioned earlier that this is a tool that can be used offline as well.

So this is just tracking what's being done digitally if, if it truly is a multiplication tive reproducing model. And there's people that are using this tool and resource analog style all over the place, then there's bound to be results that you guys can't track as well.

Yeah. Yeah. And so one of those examples was I just found this out, you know, friday of last week. Um, they, You know, exactly what you're saying. They're, you know, not everybody is doing this online with us.

So there's doing offline, they're doing it like on their own server or something like that. And so we don't necessarily get a track that kind of stuff. And so one of these stories is that 560 leaders of like network network leaders.

We're not just talking about an individual church, You know, leader pastor, but we're talking about network leaders. So multiple, you know, 560 of these guys came together and were trained and and they were trained through Zuma.

They finished the training now they're implementing and passing that on into their networks in just one country, that's just 11 of the larger countries of our world. So it's just stuff like that we've heard of uh we've heard of a mission.

Uh if I said their name, you know, many people would know them. Uh it's a global mission. They started with, you know, some of their people using Xuemei, they've really liked it, they've been able to, you know, graduate and get a lot of coaches, workers in different countries throughout different continents using it now, it's got so much popularity among them that they're, you know, top down, they're all saying, hey this is we are using this tool.

You know, we like it so much. We want all of our, you know, all of our workers to use it. We want to see, you know, all the new believers that are coming into the, into the mission, into the different churches and networks throughout the world.

We want them to get this training, you know, it's, it's just basic, but it's a great building block to start on. Mm That's awesome. Now, can you share some some of the stories that you're seeing of how Zuma is being used? Maybe in um, a mission organization context, maybe a megachurch context in the West and then maybe just sprinkling a couple other stories that you've seen of how um the Lord is using Zoom eight, uh really great effect.

Yeah, so, you know, we're different levels of this. Some, some groups got in early and they've already, you know, started integrating it throughout their whole mission. Other mission groups are just now getting started and they're taking all of their leadership through it first and then there, you know, uh instilling that throughout all of their next level workers and stuff like that, so we're seeing that happen even as we speak, one group just finished their whole leadership, they had like 30 of their leaders go through the entire thing and they're loving it, they're just it's like they themselves are living out now these principles and they're saying we get it, we've all got to be a part of that, this we are all disciples of jesus, and and if we're gonna make disciples we need to be disciples.

So we're doing this, we live out these principles now, we're going to the next level and making sure all of our workers are doing these things. So, uh megachurch out in the West Coast, for instance, uh they picked up this tool and they, you know, anybody who gets baptized in their church, they immediately offer uh, this course to them so they can go through and get these very foundational principles of being a disciple of making disciples so they can start implementing from the get go, you know, not having to wait and go through many years of, you know, training or whatever, they just go right into it and it's and these, that's what these principles are.

So one movement leader, for instance, over in uh West Africa, um, you know, this person has seen, you know, has seen a movement already take place where you have thousands of people, you know, tens of thousands of people already involved, but on the side they're doing this zoom training, they're taking the tool itself and they're saying, hey, I'll be a trainer, I'll be a coach.

And uh, just anybody that's from this whole area, you know, send them to me and I'll be glad to, you know, form a one on one relationship with them and take them through this course. And then I'll use it as a filter and, and the filter will help me figure out who's, you know, just kicking the tires and who's really involved and who's really wanting and serious about following jesus and, and willing to surrender to him.

And so those people, and that's what, you know, one of the principles in this course is we find people of peace and we invest deeply in those few and then we go, you know, further with them. We go, we'll spend way more time with those kind of people.

And that's, and so they're using this tool as a way to filter. Uh and and that's exciting. Any other, what other what other things did you guys? I'm sorry, I can't remember. And and if we're there were any other stories that really stuck out to you recently that you wanted to share, You know, there's there's dozens of these I'm doing, I'm running of course right now, I'm offering it online, we just started doing this, you know, really december of last year.

And uh it kind of was like finding it was a surprise, it was like christmas, it was like a christmas, we're realizing that people um this thing is made so that anybody can take it right, anybody can take the course and go later early on.

We had a junior high girl that when she found it, she immediately took it into her school. She was she was starting up Zuma groups with her teacher in the school and with other teachers and other students in her school, little you know, 12 13 year old girl was like okay, this thing is simple enough, you know, and it can be used by anybody, right? And so that was cool, but now we're seeing out of all these thousands of people that are registering, not all of them are getting through the course, and so some of them are, I guess they're needing they just need that little extra oomph, you know, it's like, it's kind of like, you know, if you're working out or you're trying to get into an exercise program or something like that, it's really hard to come up with the motivation to do it on your own.

Uh Man, I'd be a lot easier if I had somebody to walk with or somebody to run with, or jog with or go biking with. Right in a sense, this, this uh, what we've just been doing recently is, is our coaches and trainers have been offering online courses.

Anybody can go there and sign up for one of those courses. We usually have two or three courses at any given time that somebody could sign up for. In fact, right now, today there's a new course getting started and then there's two more getting started on the fifth of june and I think the 12th or the 13th of june.

And so these guys are getting sign ups like, uh, like you could open it up and say sign ups available and you'll have 30 people signed up like that and it's like, whoa, and where are they from, This one that I'm doing? I had people from Vietnam, I have people from India, people from Germany from France, from South Africa, from isla, teeny from kenya, from uh, from Zambia and then from texas, oh, brazil, Guatemala, Canada and then new york pennsylvania, Ohio indiana Illinois and California and Oregon.

I had that many people sign up just for that question. It was like, this is crazy, how can you do this? You know? So you guys are really, really Leaning into the digital experience that's probably coming out of COVID and what you learned during that 2020 year into this year.

Yeah, Yeah, It's crazy. It's like people ask me all the time, well, how's this Covid stuff, you know, affected you guys? And I was like, it's kind of like, it's like put gasoline on, on, on embers and kohl's and, and this fire that's going, it's like, like turn it into a forest fire.

It's like, because people realize, hey, we can do this stuff online, you know, it's like, oh my, it's just exciting in that way. I just sent a text to a guy who's one of our coaches, I asked him, um, and somebody you've already had on your, on your podcast, his name is Tim Allen and I said, hey, um I just gave him a quick question, Could you just send me like your best guess of how many groups has been started? Uh you know, what's been the impact that that God has had using zoom with you? What has been the impact your best guess, you know? And he just quickly sent back, he says, I think I've had 450 people trained 125 groups.

Those are like disciple making groups, three thirds groups that have started five generations deep, 20 states, people from 20 different states, in the United States, people from 25 different countries.

Most of this is since august of last year. So we're just talking about a six month impact using Zuma the tool. So if there's people on here listening, they have any interest in finding a tool that they want to make a global impact and do it from your couch, do it from your closet, do it from your kitchen table, um you know what, I would, I would really highly encourage them to look into zoom and give it a shot.

Um it has that ability, I mean it's not the tool itself, it's it's not, it's the person obviously, but it's like I've heard tim say I haven't found anything better you know to help start a disciple making movement than this tool, he was using these tools and these these principles before it was even called zum eight years ago and he saw, you know, another movement just happened just out of where he's at in texas.

But uh just since March of last year, he started using this tool, like almost he's like, I don't want to be distracted from anything else, just let me use this tool, send me any leads that you have and I'll follow up and we'll filter for the ones that are, you know, want to go the distance and uh I'll work with him and that's what he's seen, happened just in that six months.

Well especially as you guys have a goal of reaching the Western church, especially disciple making models and principles aren't generally taught in the church. And so this being a really introductory introductory type model to get you started and get you familiar with disciple making movement models and and structures and frameworks.

Is this helpful? Do you find that um especially in those Western context that there's, this is all brand new and there's light bulbs going on for for people or is there pushback is kind of a challenge and a struggle because you're fighting and pushing back against like the institutional programmatic models that were used to.

Yeah, I think it's all those things you just said, I mean, you know, I would be wrong to make this sound like, oh, this is like cherry pie with, you know, Alamos and you know, this is grandma's best, like this is awesome, this is good stuff.

Um but it's still you're still going to have the few people that are finding it uh and going all the way with it. So out of out of a, Of course, like, like even the one I'm I'm doing right, I had 36 people sign up.

Only 18 people showed up. We have about 14 people that are faithful right now and yet to be seen who will be faithful at the end, Like who will get to the end, Who will then start implementing and then, you know, out of that God, you'll see who's who's gonna be fruitful.

So it's like there's definitely kick back. You know, there's some people take this and they just go, I don't like it. You know, some people don't like it. Some people, I mean, you get all the all the different reactions and I think it's hard.

I mean, if you put yourself in the in the shoes of any leader in any church, it's like, you know, we've been throwing a lot of money and time and energy at our buildings and programs and all that stuff and and you get you get some fruit and the people that are doing this, you know, they came out of those kind of church is uh, but then you're seeing, you know, you're seeing these thousands of people in these, you know, hundreds and hundreds of groups getting started in a relatively short period of time where you have what 70 I don't know, 76, million people, they're saying are involved in these movements now around the world And over 1300 of them.

I mean that it all said that makes its like, it's a hard wake up call for some people. And it's like, maybe I should, but if I do that and my admitting that these other things don't work, and it's like, so there's definitely kicked back and it's a struggle and it's it's hard to, you know, wrap your mind around it.

But honestly, once you get in it, you realize these are simple things. These these actually aren't very hard at all. Why not give it a shot? And why not help people in? And whatever we whatever networks, we find ourselves churches, you know, organizations, uh, fellowships, you know, collaborations.

Let's just give, let's give this a shot. Let's let's let the Lord, you know, blessed if he wants to bless it. You know, and it's like, that's what we're seeing is that people are at least willing to give it a shot.

Let him do it. They're they're seeing the fruit. Well, imagine it's got to be the obedience piece to the invitation to step into this and be a part of what God's invited us into is the piece that's uncomfortable because like for my, that's my story, I grew up in the Western Church model and to to be to be obedient to go do.

The thing that we've been called to do is always the thing. That's the hardest thing to do, right? So as simple as the zoom a model is it's still asking us to be obedient right to to step into this fight and be a part of what God is doing.

And that's always going to be the thing that we're gonna want to push back against. And now I'm I just want to be comfortable. I want to continue to follow these consumer models, the attraction of models, and because they don't ask me of anything, ask anything of me.

That's right. So this living sacrifice thing, you know, Romans 12, you know, the problem with that. And I'm sure we've said this before, but when, when you're a living sacrifice, your flesh doesn't like that part, and it wants to jump off of the altar, right? It doesn't it fights against this of obedience.

And yet, you know, you go back to the old testament and you go back to the original promises and covenants that God made with abraham and then, you know, renewed through the law with moses and on. You know, you have verses that just keep reminding us, and all of this is built on that jesus didn't come to get rid of all that.

He came to fulfill all that. So, for instance, the verse in Exodus 19, where it says, you yourself have seen what I did to the Egyptians and how I have, you know, born you on eagle's wings and brought you back to myself.

You know, uh, you know, you've seen that, right? But check it out. You know, if you therefore are going to, you know, if you therefore we'll hear and obey my voice, there is that obedience again, right? And keep my covenant then, you know, then you will be my treasured people.

You know, and it's because all the earth is mine, you're gonna be my treasure people among all peoples. But all the families of the earth are gonna be blessed through you, right? That was the that was the promise he had made in genesis.

Well, so he's saying, hey, you're gonna be my kingdom of priests, you're gonna be, you're gonna be a holy nation. These are the words you're supposed to speak to the Children of Israel. So, uh, it's like, okay, it's all throughout from genesis to revelation, it's always about us being this holy prepared nation, these disciples of jesus, this decide we're part of his body, he's the head where we are, we are, we have a were his sheep, he's the shepherd, we're supposed to hear his voice obey it.

You said it right zack, It's like that's it in a nutshell. And even and every one of us, I mean me included, it's like okay, but, but I got to do this, so like if he says, if he says to do something and it's like, oh I got to do this, I can't just say, oh yeah, that's a good thing that you said there, you know, give mental assent to it.

It's like when he says Abraham, I want you to go to this new nation, this new land, he meant, he meant it, you know, and he says, hey, I want you to take this son of yours and take him up on that, you know, hill was like, he meant it, it's like he wants, he wants that, he's expecting it and it's like if we will keep his covenant.

So yeah discipleship, it's about doing, it, is about being and doing, we're being his disciples, we love him so much because he loved us so much and therefore we do the things he tells us to do and and so Zuma is just putting some of those very core foundational, uh that gets, that gets a lot of traction and we can't leave them, these have to be there, we can't jump over this, you know, you can't have a conversion without discipleship and neither can you have discipleship without conversion, so you know, whoever is in christ is a new creation, the oldest passed the news come and then he gives us the ministry of reconciliation and so you can't be new in christ and not have ministry of reconciliation of being him as ambassador, neither can you be an ambassador and not have this newness in christ and this conversion experience of being you know having the old gun on all the sins and having his spirit in us, you know this new creation so they all go together.

You know this being a disciple of his is comes after the conversion but it's still it's together, it's together. So yeah one Like my own story, looking back at my walk with christ and the like struggle that I have to be obedient to the call.

The thing that helped me the most has been the shift in mindset from all this thing that I have to do to this thing that I've been invited into and there's if you if you can make a little adjustment in your mind obviously the Lord was the one that's been making that in my in my mind but make that adjustment to this is not something that I gradually have to be a part of because he wants me to just be obedient because he's a tyrannical god, but he's, it's something that he's invited us into this is an exciting thing that we get to be a part of.

Like he is redeeming humanity from our own wickedness and he has invited us in to be a part of that redemption story and that like he could have done it without us, but he's chosen to say hello to do this with you, I want to be I want you to be partners with me in this redemptive work.

And that is when we when we view it like that, that at least for me was such a shift in mindset, like okay, like this is the God of the universe, who can do this on his own with a word, but he's chosen to invite us to be a part of this story with him to be to be co laborers in this and partners with him as he redeems humanity and that it's like, okay, that that's a big shift in and really helpful.

Like I can I can get a part of, I can be a part of that. That's that's something that makes it easier for me, I think. Um, to be obedient, obviously there's still the struggles of the flesh that want to push against that.

But with that shift in mindset, it made a huge difference for me. Yeah, reminds me of that we know that our, you know, our old self has been crucified with him so that that body of sin might be brought to nothing, right? Uh we we know that whoever has died with him, we are now freed from that sin from that fleshly start were free from the power of it, right? We can get a live it out and then finally we can actually, you know, it's like peter when it talks about, we've been given that divine nature, uh, to help us do the very thing that he's asked us to do that he wants us to do and it's the best, it's, he's got the best in mind for us.

So we're going to be a part of it. Yeah, I agree with everything you said, Zach, I agree with that. It's like, wow, we're so blessed, we're so privileged to be invited to join it. And the thing is all every person has the same invitation, you know, and to those who receive, who those who did receive him, john 1 12 says those who did receive him and believe in his name to them, he gave the power of the right to become the Children of God.

And it's like, wow, mm wow, we could be his Children. I mean he created us and he's just, he's basically doing this family, you know, bringing, he's bringing back his family, you know, all over the world, all of us and there's unity in that, there's, you know, oh, you know, talk about true equality, it's like we're all one in christ in his body, he's the head and it doesn't matter the color of your skin, it doesn't matter how much money you have, it doesn't matter when you were born, you know, it could be thousands of years ago, it could be thousands of years in the future, but we got to be a part of what he is doing and so wow, so Zuma is available at such a time as this to come alongside of anyone in christ that wants to be a better disciple and uh and make disciples and and hopefully make an impact among many nations while you're doing it, that's awesome.

Well eric I appreciate you so much for being on the show, this has been great um can can I pray for you real quick man Zoom thank you so much. Yes, father's lift up ERic and the team Zuma, I pray that you would guide and lead them as they just continue to pursue you father thank you for this resource in this tool um that you have, you've given to help us make disciples, Lord help us be obedient to what you've invited us into and so I just pray that you would continue to bless and grow this, this ministry and this resource and this tool um I pray that you would bless ERic and his team that they would just continue to see you do amazing things through this, through this resource into a father.

We thank you so much um for inviting us into this story or you could have done it yourself like we talked about, um but you have invited us to be a part, a part of this, partnered with you in this and um that's just a really cool privilege that we get to be invited into that.

So thank you, we love you so much and pray that you would be with eric as he continues to lead all these groups. Lord give them guidance and wisdom and direction in jesus name Amen Amen eric. If people want to get a hold of you or learn more about Zuma, how can they do so uh well, Zuma dot training um and then register and then sign up for if you want to, if you want to disciple making coach, just sign up.

I'll see your requests come through right now. I'm the dispatcher. You can also email me, just email me at e dairy, D E R R Y at team expansion dot or G O R G Perfect. And uh, I'll put links to zoom in and zoom training and zoom vision and in the show notes so people can awesome, reach out and check out more about what this is all about and they can sign up for one of those courses, join an online group.

It's also one of the links that you'll get under Zuma dot training, join an online group. Perfect. Alright, well, thanks so much. Eric, I appreciate it. Okay, God bless you bro, Thank you so much. Keep up the good work.

Thanks. Bye bye. Thank you for listening to this episode of the ministry Growth show. If you enjoyed it, we'd appreciate it. If you rate and review us on the Itunes store and make sure you subscribe. So you never miss an episode.

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