Vishal Mangalwadi from Revelation Movement – Education Revolution

This week on The Ministry Growth Show I’m excited to host Vishal Mangalwadi. Vishal is the founder of Revelation Movement and an author of 21 books that have been translated into 14 different languages. His content is used in university curriculum all over the world and Christianity Today called him “India’s foremost Christian intellectual.” In […]

The post Vishal Mangalwadi from Revelation Movement – Education Revolution appeared first on Reliant Creative.

You're listening to the Ministry growth show brought to you by Reliant Creative, the creative agency for Gospel centered ministries. Find out more at Reliant Creative dot org. Welcome to the Ministry Growth Show, a podcast dedicated to helping churches and ministries grow and make more effective impacts for the Kingdom of God in an ever changing digital world, whether you're building and growing a gospel center ministry or leading a church, if you want insight into the strategies, struggles, challenges and successes of other ministry leaders, you've come to the right place.

Welcome back to the ministry Growth show Today on the show, I'm excited to be talking with Vishal Megawati. He is an author of 21 books that have been translated into 14 different languages. Uh, and he has pioneered a vision for an education revolution that will disciple nations the show.

Thanks for being on the show. Thank you for having me. Yeah, of course. Can you tell us a little bit about what you do, maybe share what you're currently most excited about with what God is doing through your ministry? Sure.

I studied philosophy in India and when I realized that my professors knew that the philosophers knew that they did not know the truth and that they could not know the truth and that all of the enlightenment movement in the West had come to the same conclusion as indian philosophy had reached 2500 years earlier that human mind was not an instrument, reason.

Logic were not instruments of knowing truth. The India had become nihilistic, pessimistic about the possibility of human beings, uh knowing truth and therefore the whole idea of pursuit of truth had been discarded in favor of either mystical experience through yoga, et cetera, or through mythology.

Legends, stories that we should believe. Stories and stories will give us insight into truth so that the Western mind had come to the same conclusion. It began, The enlightenment began with rainy day cards saying that we can know the truth.

He was a french philosopher, but it concluded with niche Frederick Nietzsche in Germany that no human mind cannot know if we cannot ultimately, no, even if we exist as a permanent individual cells as sole.

So the West became pessimistic intellectually. But how do we know the truth? It appeared to me that we were like five blind men as the buddha said, who were trying to figure out what is an elephant and they were fighting with each other.

But uh they cannot possibly know the truth because they are blind. They can no part of the reality and articulated. But it occurred to me that what if there is 1/6 person who know who, who is not blind, who sees the elephant and can explain what the elephant is then? Yes, we can know truth.

Even if he can't experience, if I'm blind, I will never know what if the tusk of the elephant is white. But if I say to another blind man that you know that the tusk is white, he would say what is white, I'd say that I don't know.

But is that truth? That the task is white? Yes, I can know the truth. If there is someone who knows the truth and would reveal it to me. So I began to investigate if there is a God who knows the truth and who has revealed it to us.

I began reading the bible and it was reading through 1st and 2nd Kings and 1st and 2nd chronicles that I began to realize that the bible was actually the word of God. Once I had this intellectual, I had already had a a personal spiritual conversion of turning from sin to finding jesus as my savior.

But this intellectual conversion became very important. I began reading the bible and uh it became clear that to follow jesus for me would mean serving the poor who are victims of the hindu philosophy, social system, corruption, oppression.

So uh my wife and I began serving the poor in central India in a state called multi Pradesh. And we, I was got into a lot of trouble because we realized that poverty is not just an economic issue, it is a socio religious political issue.

I was thrown in jail a few times, many attempts to murder me what happened and then our whole community was burned down. But in the midst of all of this I had begun to write, I had already turned my master's thesis which was a study of gurus who were hindu gurus who were very popular at that time into a book which became an instant bestseller in India and began to be taught in different parts of the world.

It was published here in Chicago but also translated into languages such as german. So uh the largest news magazine in India, a weekly magazine serialized that book for eight or nine weeks, they would take a chapter condense it, publish it.

So it was in the national press for eight or nine weeks every week. And as a result it became a textbook in universities such as Cambridge, where it is still drop taught in the department of religion.

So I was a published author but I was working with the poor who didn't know how to read and write and got into trouble with the established uh system and the lord used that persecution to throw us out.

So I have continued traveling around the world uh and uh we are still homeless, my wife and I don't own or rent a home anywhere in the world. And we have uh this whole experience of studying God's who are studying the world And it's trying to understand poverty and suffering has resulted in these 21 books.

Several of them are not in many universities, including in America. And as we began to grapple seriously with the question the why has Christianity lost America? Why did Christianity la luz a western europe that it is a marginalized religion? And uh what what went wrong with Christianity? And how do we disciple nations again? How do we disciple the United States of America out of that kim this understanding uh that the church needs to take education back from the devil.

And I published that in an appendix in my book Truth and transformation. Published by Why When in Seattle uh Indonesians took it to Indonesia. They translated it into Indonesian pasa in 2000 and 10 and invited me and they launched the practice of the church using online education uh to disciple uh young people.

And from that it has grown. We have three legal entities. 12 of them are actually incorporated in America. Um one is called trinity global education and the other is called virtues campus, based in Minnesota.

And uh since I'm because of Covid 19, I'm stranded in the USa the opening up doors including this podcast to turn this into a revolution where churches take education back from the devil to disciple the nation.

Now, as as you feel this revolution is taking place, Do you, are you seeing any pushback or um hesitancy on the church's side to to make this movement? No, actually, tomorrow we have a conference phone conference with three churches in New Jersey where this group in Minnesota called virtues campus.

They were online, it's led by reverend doctor David Glistening who was a senior pastor in a Lutheran church Missouri synod who resigned his uh senior pastor ship that took campuses church campuses. And he turned one of the church into an experiment in a church based University Education and one former Anglican Lutheran College, which has now become a university, a private university in Iowa.

So this churches in Minnesota are partnering with this Iowa university for uh, Waldorf university to give associate of art degrees to uh students in Minnesota. But in New Jersey we're starting with high school home school students, students who are still in high school but who want to take college credits.

So they will go to the local church three times a week under the pastor too, take college university credits. Uh, they are allowed to take up to 21 credits, which uh, will put them in ahead of other students when they actually join B.

A. Or B. Sc or associate of arts. So, uh, we, Yes, for 10 years it has been very hard to persuade american universities and american churches that it is their responsibility to take, to educate nations, disciple ng nation means to baptizing, marinating everyone into the truth of the Tryon god, uh, keep people submerged.

So this is what martin Luther had understood with the doctrine of priesthood of all believers. That if all believers are to be priests and kings, all believers need to have education, to know God, to know truth, uh, to establish their Dominion over the earth.

So that's how this whole concept of universal education began. The Roman Catholic Church had already invented the institution of the university 400 years before Luther. But a universal education was a protestant idea which gradually everybody accepted that yes, everyone should be educated.

But the evangelical movement in America gave it up and we are suffering as a result of that, that you're the christian press has become fake news courts became a problem in America banning prayers, removing 10 commandments of allowing abortions etcetera.

So you have um, Christianity has lost America, and the way to take it back is to bring uh education which has become the devil's WMD weapon of mass deception. So, in what she has become the devil's main weapon of mass deception of the whole nation.

The press has become the weapon of mass deception. So America has fought in Iraq against what was imagined to be the weapons of mass destruction. But the devil is actually out to deceive nations and education is satan's primary means of mass deception, and that is what we've got to attack and win back.

And coronavirus has. What it has done is crumble the walls of brick and mortar, of classrooms at school level and university level. The question now is whether the church will open its doors to welcome students, that while parents are at work, students come to church monday to friday and there is an academic pastor who is a homeschooling mom or dad credential to be a teaching assistant supervising students to go through college credit courses.

The course will come from the university. Online students will study in small cohorts in the church. Uh, academic pastor will supervise. So in Uganda we have one denomination, a Pentecostal denomination with 30,000 churches that agreed last year in January, two, to turn every church into a college classroom.

Um and this would be an education revolution because Pentecostals didn't believe in college education for a long time. But here uh 200 top leaders of the entire denomination, I mean part of the unanimous resolution that let's do this and as a result of coronavirus, the government in Uganda has no islam encouraging online education, but those students stay at home uh in front of a computer or ipad or They should, they go into a church where they are also being disciples.

So four Christian universities in Uganda have come together that yes, we want to do this, we have had a string of consultations during the last 12 months. The first one was in Phoenix Arizona, the last one was in south Korea in february, just when covid 19 came as a big hit in south Korea, I was there.

And uh, so the universities have now opened up that, yes, we must all use the internet for education, but the church has yet to open up and there are theological problems within the church which we have to overcome in order to remind the church that they are responsible to disciple nation.

Mm. Yeah, I mean, this, this covid stuff is definitely, you see the Lord work, even though it's a bummer situation, you see the Lord working in it in in really cool ways. I mean, the the church is responding and being relatively creative in how they've um, how they've responded to the whole situation.

I think it opens up opportunities um, that are really exciting for the gospel. So I'm excited to see how this all pans out for you guys. Um how how do you view the internet, all things digital space and its potential to be a supporting element in the Great Commission as a whole? We believe reliant the potential that the internet provides for sharing information for providing the education that you talked about for bringing inspiration through storytelling.

Think the potential within that space is really incredible. How does your view of the internet kind of shape your ministry in your work? Yes. Internet is being used for storing telling. I wanted to be used for truth telling.

One of the major problems with the american evangelical Christianity is that it has replace the gospel truth with the gospel story. But that's another discussion. The heart of your question is uh that internet is the current Mhm Revolution in communication or major revolutions have shaped world history.

The first was writing the non christians would say language was the first revolution, but actually we didn't invent language. We were created with the gift of language because we were made in the image of someone who speaks.

So language was given to Adam and Eve so that adam could name animals, categorize animals and then plants and then fish and then the planet and the constellations and soils and rocks and everything else.

But writing was a revolution in that uh speaking helps one generation to learn from its peers, parents appears siblings. But writing enables us to learn from somebody who lived 5000 years ago in 15 15,000 kilometers away miles away.

So it is a it was a revolution because it becomes a bank. Language becomes a bank in which a culture stored its knowledge. So if I have access to your bank account, your language, your your literature, I can plunder your intellectual wealth that you have communicated which accumulated.

So any information that the uh Egyptians had or Greeks had, a romans had, Hindus had, chinese had is accessible to me if I know their languages. So writing was and the jews use the writing most effectively.

That's why the bible has uh had a greater impact on the world than hindu scriptures because the Hindus didn't write their secret scripture structures. Um the way does. But the jews wrote their history and their scriptures and their reflections and their song.

But The 3rd Major Revolution was printing writing. If I write my hand, one person, two people read it at a time. If I print 1000 people read the same thing at a time. So printing revolution was used by the protestant movement.

The orthodox didn't use it, Muslims didn't use it. And printing revolution because the protestant movement used it. It transformed protestant nations because it made people to think, to question, to understand, To research further.

It became an intellectual revolution. And uh protestantism became the most powerful Force around the world in 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th centuries until the secularists began using the printing. But at the beginning of the 20th century you had audio visual revolution huck symbolized by Hollywood.

And unfortunately the christian movement stayed out of that revolution. Only now we are starting to make christian films. But many christians when we were young we were told not even to go to movies. Uh therefore Hollywood didn't bother with christian films because christians were not their customers.

And Christianity lost America because we missed the audiovisual revolution. There were few billy Graham films and a few more days science films. But by and large uh we we to our own peril we lost that Now came in the 1980s.

The Internet Revolution, which is bigger than all the previous revolutions put together because the internet is already the biggest research library, the biggest shopping model, the biggest pornography and biggest entertainment and dating site etcetera etcetera.

So it is a bigger revolution and christians have been very slow in getting onto it Because uh for a number of reasons our universities, it's only because of coronavirus that our universities have been shaken up.

I took almost 10 years ago I went to this international Christian hi Association for higher education into their headquarters, argued with them, but only this morning I got a letter from them but now they have decided to encourage all christian university to go online.

A few christian universities have been using online education but they have been trying to you seeing it as a cash cow that to make more money, right? This means this is a disease that Christianity has succumbed to education as priesthood of rich believers.

Only those who can afford getting into a debt of $50,000 can go to a Christian university in America. So it has become a priesthood of rich believers. But with martin Luther uh the whole idea of higher education and the basic education Children's education was priesthood of all believers that God wants all believers rich and poor to know the truth, to know God, to know the world, which in which they are supposed to establish their Dominion.

So uh what our revolution is struggling with is to uh not get trapped in this mentality of using e learning or online learning as a priesthood of rich believers, Which makes money for Christian universities.

But to disciple whole nations, every church, 100,000 churches in America Should welcome 15 students under one academic pastor. That will be 1.5 million students. A 100,000 churches have one academic pastor each like youth pastor.

And there are 15 students each when they have Second year. Another 15 students to academic pastors. American church would be disciple ng three million students a year every day. These students will be in the church in a four year program, bachelor's program.

Uh some of the practical will need to be done in the labs, not in churches, but the theories will need to be, can be done in churches, are in homes, you know, under the supervision of elders and pastors uh, in the church.

So you will have priesthood off all believers in a country such as Uganda and Nigeria or India. We will need to use educational satellite to transmit the curriculum. Um, but so this is a revolution in that uh, the, the mandate to disciple whole nation is recovered by the church and goes out and is educating people not to make money.

They will make money. Nations will become very rich, who allow every person's potential to blossom through education. So the churches will make a lot of money, but they will educate to build up individuals whether or not they have money.

So what's it going to take for the church to move in this? Education revolution direction? Well, you are playing a very important role in recording this podcast. I'm saying to them that because every christian university is having financial trouble And I'm saying to them that instead of having brick and model classrooms with 5000 or 10,000 students, if you take your content to every church, You will have a million students, you know, 500,000 students taking your courses for which you don't have to hire teachers and you don't have to build buildings.

You will make a lot more money by lowering your institution fee to 5000 maximum 10,000, uh which the students will take alone, Taking a loan of $10,000 is much better than taking a loan of $30 or $40,000.

Half of it will stay with the local church where the academic pastor gets paid, half of it will go to the university where the world's highest quality curriculum is being developed and some of the money will be shared by the technical people who are running this.

So yes, there has been a resistance from the christian universities for the last 10 years in America. There are not too many universities, such as walled off in Iowa that were open to exploring this, but these mainstream, bigger universities were close to it, but coronavirus has forced them and the economic realities has forced them.

Now, we have a problem with theology in the church that most of the pastors and theologians don't see, uh, the church being responsible for education, they don't understand discipleship is education that they decided to do baptize whole nations in Father son and the Holy Spirit means that nations that are immersed in false gods and goddesses and myths, they have to be immersed in the truth of God's word uh, in the formative years of their lives, this is what martin Luther is arguing in 15 20 in his book, which is the hero, three books and 15 20.

The first one was a letter to christian nobility, uh in which expand the implication of priesthood of all believers, and expands the great commission that the roman catholic church is not going to allow every believer to become a priest because of the distinction between priests and clergy and laity.

But the bible requires every believer to become a priest and king. Therefore, every believer must be educated and the prince must make sure that every child in his state is educated. So by 1915 30 martin Luther realized that the real problem in Germany was the parent right now.

Our problem in America is the american church, the theology and the pastor. Uh they don't see this as their responsibility. But in 15 30 30 when Luther saw that it's the parents who don't want their Children to go to school.

He was very angry and preached a great sermon on um Seek ye 1st, the Kingdom of God and his righteousness. He said that he was saying that we can't send our boys to school because they have to go and cut wood in the forest.

Otherwise, how will we keep the village warm? We can't send our girls to school because girls have to cut grass. Otherwise what will the cows eat? Or they have to make cheese or use the wool to make. And this blankets or whatever you concerned about.

What shall we eat? What shall we drink? How shall we stay warm? This is what pagan seek. You see God's kingdom and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you. What does that mean, Luther says? It means send your kids to school, keep them there for 12 years, 10 years.

They must be grounded in the truth of God's word. If God's word, God's revelation is not the source of truth. You have to depend only on reason, including on science. You will be deceived as we are being deceived right now, um by so called scientists and experts who have, who are destroying american economy and global economies.

So the truth has to be granted in the word of God, uh which is what jesus is saying, that satan is out to deceive the nations. That phrase is quiet on revelation. 20 church is sent out to disciple nations and disciple ng nations is not just getting sinners to pray sinner's prayer and sign an application and understand what it means to be born again and have an assurance of salvation etcetera.

So we've reduced the whole meaning of what does it mean to disciple nations, to individualism and we have a gospel of individual salvation of my soul going to heaven. We don't have a gospel of the kingdom of God having come into this earth to transform slaves, satan slaves into God's sons.

What sons do is that they sit on their father's throne to manage his state, govern his kingdom. That is our responsibility. If America is becoming kingdom of satan, it is because the american church has not been interested in making making sure that God's will is done in America.

The church has been interested in um tribulation and rapture, not in transformation. I've got them coming on this earth. So there are these major theological issues that have to be debated. That is jesus expecting us to make God's enemies his footstool today or is he going to come back and uh scatology is only one issue and much more basic issues.

Epistemology. So right now, a part of my challenge is to address the theological corruption in american Christianity that prevent churches from for obeying the command to disciple USa. Because A lot of the teaching missionary teaching that has come into America for the last 30, 40 years Has actually since Lausanne 1970 for uh dominant missionary teaching has been that Jesus will come back as soon as the last unreached people group has heard the gospel story, so don't bother disciple in America, let the devil run our courts and our press and our universities and Wall Street, we go out out to save souls and tell the gospel story to the last unreached people group and then jesus will come back and he will rule on this earth unless he that prefers to take us to heaven, he might rule on the south at least for 1000 years and then we will have a topia, then we will have Kingdom of God because Kingdom of God cannot come without the king being here.

Well, when he said I'm knocking at the door, you open the heart and I will come, you open the door and I will come in. Did he come in? Is jesus here with you in you now? Yes, he says and the body of christ Well are you the useless body of christ that he cannot govern this earth by sitting on the throne of your heart? That he has to come and sit in the third temple in Jerusalem before he can reform America, didn't reformation, the unleashing of the gospel, reform, europe didn't the great awakenings.

The 1st and 2nd grade awakenings transform America uh is the body of christ on earth a useless body of christ Or is this the body through which jesus wants God's will to be done on earth today. So these are major theological issues but even bigger than some of these issues is the question of epistemology that I'm avoiding so far.

But these are major philosophical issues why Christianity has lost America and how a new awakening in America will in fact disciple United States of America make it once again a city on a hill, a light to the nations.

Hope for the nation's. Now, if most pastors are not seeing education as a responsibility of the church, that seems like a pretty large barrier to get to before we can even get the, you know, the, the church on board with this education revolution.

So what are some tangible things that you guys are doing to shift mindset in church leadership? Well, our big ally is the home schooling movement. That's one of the finest things that's happening in America right now And home schooling when you have kids who are in 9, 10, 11, 12 grades, they know that they can take with some extra effort college credits very cheaply, which would mean that they will not have a, a big debt at the end when they graduate.

So uh, and many of these homeschooling parents are christians and uh they are very open to the idea that uh the their young people to three times a week for three hours at a time, they go to the local church and the supervision of an academic pastor and some educated homeschool parents who are sitting there that they can begin to help.

They're young people get the university credit. So from within the church uh, we do have uh powerful lobby that is beginning to see the potential, but there are many other factors. One is just a plain fact that helped part of the virtues campus that this Missouri synod of the evangelical lutherans and A 10, 15 years earlier, 20 years ago, They were confirming about 120,000 young people every year.

So a child is baptized as an infant. But by the time he's 13, 14, 15 years old, he is confirmed. This was 120,000 or so young people were being confirmed every 20 years ago. But by 19 2014, when we started virtus campus, the number had come down to 6,070,000 a year.

So the church was losing 50% of its own young people, uh, particularly when the young people were going to college, they stopped going to church. So just to keep their own young people into the church.

And now you have grandparents who are complaining that I have three grandsons. Each one of them is living with his girlfriend without getting married. Well, who destroyed the american understanding of the sanctity and separateness, folks, sex and marriage.

It is the college, it is the university. And so why are you not uh, educating the young people yourself in the, in the college? And why aren't you demanding that the christian universities stop pleasing the secular world view and secular counterparts and become more biblical in their uh, uh, teaching of truth.

So, uh, there are these practical pressures which the pastors and christians are facing, even if they have the old mindset that jesus is coming back in five years when the last unreached people group has been reached.

So even if they have that mindset esque ideological mindset, they are confronting the spectacle reality that they are losing their own young people. They may not be bothered about the nation because even american politicians are not bothered about nation.

You had The primaries were going on, you had 10 or so people who want to become president of America who don't believe in national borders and that these borders should be open and illegal should be able to come in because this is what the universities have done.

Uh they have not given to the leaders an understanding of what national international border means et cetera. So there's no understanding of what is marriage, What is a nation, what is justice etcetera etcetera.

But we can't touch all of that in this podcast. The point right now is what would bring the churches uh into this program. When we started in Minnesota in 2014, there were 89 churches within the twin cities downtown area, a city area of ST paul Minnesota that were either empty.

They've stopped worship services or they were having four or five worshippers once a month because one pastor will go to four different churches in four weeks to conduct a service or more. And I was saying that, look, we can fill each of these churches with young people, uh the Somalis and others who, the downtown people because as the white christians moved out to suburbs, they built their own bigger churches in suburbs and the poorer people moved into the heart of the city's and the church was not meeting their needs.

But if the church had an academic posture, Students were paying only $10,000 a year, which they took as loans and went to the local church. So 15 students paying $10,000 is 150,000. The church will have $75,000 a year, which it will be paid to the academic pastor, logistic assistance, etc.

The other $75,000 will go to the university and labs, et cetera, teachers. So every church can be filled every day. And this, this appeals to some people intellectually at least. Uh they said yes, this makes a lot of sense that we should be using these churches to disciple young people who have nothing to do with the church and we're giving up our city.

So in fact, those areas of Minnesota are now electing muslim, um senators, congressmen, women, because the christians just abandoned the downtown, that's what is a residential areas are concerned, they're still there in offices.

Uh So there are these practical issues that the churches don't have money to pay for utilities and repairs well, nor do the universities have Christian universities have enough money to pay for the utilities and repairs.

So when they say that the major universities in $20 million $40,50 million dollars because the university has not been putting money into repairs because it doesn't have cash flow. And here is a solution, both for christian universities and for the churches to use their facilities.

Um, five days a week. Then we can use it for the church and generate the revenue to pay well to the leaders and the staff in the church and as well as in the christian universities. So there are these practical reasons why churches should get into this.

But, but it will not, I don't want them to see this as a cash cow. I want them to see this as a mandate go and disciple nations make God's enemies his footstool. Because what this is about is about a new creative awakening of Biblical Christianity, God's light transforming America and making America in light to the nations.

Now. How does, how does this online education revolution idea play out maybe in a non developed world where access is either restricted or sometimes limited? Well, when we first started the first center in Indonesia in 2010 of our lines, There was a 10th I was there and uh team had to put up a 50 metre high antenna to catch the signal.

The Internet signal because um uh internet was much worse than 10 years ago than it is now. They struggle with it thankfully. The government at that time authorized to unit christian universities To give online bachelor's degree in education, because there were 3000 plus Christian high schools, primary schools and high schools mostly serving poor and poor students cannot pay.

Therefore, they did not have qualified teachers. A teacher who has already got a bachelor's degree would rather work in a wealthy school in a city and get good salary. But the teachers who are not qualified, they were teaching in these primary schools and government had realized that even teachers in primary school have to have graduate degrees.

But how does a man who has a wife and Children is living in a village? How does he leave his family behind and go to a city to join a educ college of Education to get a bachelor's degree? He can't. So we said they agreed that they will let us bring college education once the program got going, the government changed its mind and said, well, why should these christian universities suddenly get 1000 students? We want their fee.

So only the government university is allowed to give online degree. So this was a problem with uh, with Indonesia, there were other problems as well. So there have been struggle, but things are changing right now, in a country such as Uganda, we have the best situation where the first lady who is a believer is in fact the Minister of Education and uh we have direct access to her.

And uh the whole National Council of Higher Education has agreed that if we are going to take best education to the remote ist village, uh government cannot afford to build schools and send teachers everywhere and the churches don't have money to build school of buildings.

Um so therefore we've got to use existing buildings even if they are just mud huts with thatched roof and they already have, people are already have cell phones, mobile phones and we should be able to send curriculum on to them and very cheap ipads can be, our laptop can be created.

Uh Initially some of these may have to be preloaded with education curriculum, but it will be much cheaper to have an educational satellite broadcasting to the whole nation A curriculum because English is, there are four or 5 major dialect in in Uganda, but english is usually the language of education because it was a british not colony, but dependency for 100 years or so.

So there are nations like that. And uh the first problem was the church, that second problem was the university, 3rd problem with the government, but in Uganda, all of this has come together and that's now beginning to happen in Nigeria, in kenya etcetera.

So we still have challenges in India, But our technical team is in India and at least one mission In India, within South Indian mission in North India has agreed that from 2022 they will take this program of taking a bachelor's degree, University degree offering it through their missionaries.

They have 3000 missionaries. So yes, we have a major concern of course is finance, because all of us working in this are um volunteers, none of us is being paid anything. Uh, this is obedience to the Mission Commission, great commission to disciple nation.

Do you see this education revolution as, as may be taking off through another nation or other than the United States? Potentially? Well, yes, I think at the moment it appears that Uganda would be the best uh model, but I think America is ready and uh, I think within a year we would see a dramatic change in America.

It has taken only two months of covid to break down this idea of 1000 year old idea. The education means brick and mortars, classrooms, so that has been shattered. Getting the church to see uh, there need this, the exact proposal right now is that let's take a high school student who is being home schooled, he wants to take some college credit.

So the first course that he or she takes is going through the whole bible and christian university gives him her credit for going through the whole bible. A church should have no problem. The church would really welcome because any pastor can uh mentor a student who is reading through the whole bible so they read it at home, they come to church and the pastor is given lessons uh make sure that students have actually studied.

But this is reading the bible Worldview ish lee not devotional E. Because the major problem of american Christianity is a program which intervarsity had promoted called Search the scriptures, where it teaches people to meditate on the bible every day, but meditate on passages here and there.

You read Galatians in the morning lamentations in the evening and if you read the bible that way, you never developed a Biblical worldview. So average american christian does not even understand what the phrase Biblical worldview means and this is a result of the kind of devotional life that major movements such as intervarsity have promoted in America.

So we need students to now go through the bible worldview ish lee to allow. So at least they understand the bible's worldview, even if they don't understand, even if they don't accept it or agree with it, but they need to understand what the Biblical worldview is so that they can compare and it with other non christian world views.

So that's a first course. The second course is the bible's impact on world history. So if we have a course on world worldview and world histories, what are the great ideas that have created the modern world? Why is America a nation not an empire? Why does America have a president and not a kink, not an emperor? Why does the constitution say we the people? Where did these ideas come from? That all men are created equal? Most schools don't even believe that human beings are created.

We evolved. So did we evolve equal? These are world the assumptions that all people are created equal. Everyone is endowed with certain inalienable rights, right to life, Liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Did evolution ever tell mosquitoes and viruses not to kill human beings who endowed everyone with inalienable rights? Uh, what are these worldviews that created? Nations such as the United States of America? We want students to go through the bible but go through the great ideas that have shaped history.

Um if the attempts american attempts to create democracies in Afghanistan, Iraq Syria, Libya. If they have failed, why did they fail? Why did french revolution fail? So a second course on Western civilization? Because there's so much nonsense coming from american universities which deceived american administration.

So best educated leaders in Bush administration didn't know what democracy is. And they thought if you have a constitution, if you have free and fair election in Iraq, you will get democracy, you will get freedom.

What they give to Iraq was Islamic state and terrorism. So how did the White House under a born again? President gets so wrong. This is because they were being deceived by american universities. And that's why if we have a curriculum in the church, which is a curriculum of Western civilization was but it is looking at the world views and world history and in that context you look at the creation of the United States, europe and other nations african nations, asian nation, South american nations, then we will create a uh a course which should appeal to the church that okay, here is some basic teaching on citizenship, good citizenship.

That is that our young people need to need no for them to even cultivate their faith in. Now in the bible in the church, to what is the role of the church? What has been the role of the church in building of modern America? So my point is that uh we can begin with some courses that the church elders will see are good for America, good for the world, good for the church.

And these are the truths that american students need to learn and the schools and colleges are teaching with all sort now, how could the most resourceful media in the world? The best educated journalists in the world become fake news? What has happened to the culture, the post truth culture? How do we reestablish the Declaration of Independence? Is that we're building America on truths? Is there anything called Truth University doesn't believe that every high school student graduate knows that nobody knows the truth.

These are our stories. So is the Declaration of Independence a story that we hold the story to be our true story that all men have evolved equal and have been endowed by evolution with certain inalienable rights.

These are issues which if there is going to be a new great awakening which strengthens the foundations of civility and truth and justice and righteousness in America, then the church has to take education back, christian university has to stop being afraid and bullied by secular universities which are teaching mythology vessel.

This is this is incredible stuff. Thank you so much for being on the show. I want to be respectful of our audiences time and um, so I appreciate your time and thoughts and insights and expertise. Can I pray for you and your ministry? Yes, please pray the organization.

We just spearheading this aspect of our ministry in America is called virtues Campus. It's incorporated in Minnesota, led by reverend David glistening uh the overall international ministries called Revelation Movement and it now has a european branch.

So do pray for these two movements. The groups in Uganda etcetera have their own name. An international fellowship that is going to be incorporated in south Korea is called Kingdom Education Fellowship which will really spearhead uh this uh globally uh education kingdom Education Fellowship.

I don't don't control any of these. Um the Lord is because this was asked to become a movement which to raise a people to run these, so none of these have any funding and but the Lord is raising a people just like we brought you to do this podcast so people can connect with me through my facebook Michelle mangled body or through Revelation movement dot com.

But american audience should also check out virtues campus dot com, virtues campus dot com. Thank you. Perfect. Yeah and I will, I will link to all of those in the show notes, but let's pray real quick father, we just thank you so much for visual and um the things that he's doing, the idea is that he shared Father, I lift up his leadership over his ministry and the ministry is that he's in contact and working with, we just pray for education revolution here and globally.

Father, we thank you so much for um Russia and his willingness to use his gifts and talents for the kingdom and to be obedient to your call and I just lift up trinity, global education and virtuous campus kingdom education fellowship, Revelation movement and pray that you would just bless these uh these movements in these ministries for your glory and for your for your name sake Lord, we love you.

Thank you so much for letting us be a part of what you're doing in jesus name. Amen Fischel, thank you so much for being on the show. Really appreciate it and uh well we're excited to watch what happens with all this stuff.

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